- My thoughts: I don’t think this at all. Keep in mind I haven’t read the whole book yet but from what I’ve read Olivia Jean is a young girl, like any other, wanting love and attention from her parents. I haven’t run across anything yet that shows me Olivia Jean has her head in the clouds other than maybe some unrealistic expectations about having and caring for a baby at her age. As for her parents, is it wrong for a child to sometimes have all of her parent’s attention, to not be pushed aside whether for a spouse or another child. I don’t think so-it’s a basic human need to want to be loved and what is an unrealistic expectation for some isn’t for another. Olivia Jean wanting her father to sing her a song for her birthday and instead having him sing it to her mother in front of everyone proves to me that this child didn’t have her head in the clouds at all. That was blatant favoritism and I’m pretty sure any child or for that matter adult would have felt slighted and hurt.
Bonnie also asked, ‘Why make Turk the bad guy?’ Do readers dislike him because we really haven’t been given enough to know his true character. Bonnie has said that she’s thought of writing a book from his perspective so we would better be able to understand him…Not sure that would help for me…
- My thoughts: I don’t completely blame Turk at all although his actions do really make me angry. I’ve been lucky in my life to have the love of a very good father so for me reading about some of the ways he has treated Olivia Jean just breaks my heart. After finding out she is pregnant, he refers to her only as ‘the girl’. Sorry, you can’t make me like a character like that. I think he has some essential parts missing in his emotional makeup because even as a husband he is found greatly lacking when he disappears for days. As for only blaming him-no-I think Daisy is just as much at fault because of her love for him, she often denies giving Olivia Jean what she does need although deep down she knows she should, she just doesn’t know how.
Bonnie, I hope that addresses some of what you were looking to have answered. These were really great topics to discuss and I think this book would make such a wonderful selection for a book club read. There is so much in terms of emotional things going on and the situation itself that could keep the conversation going for a long time.
Make sure to read my post underneath this one for my first set of thoughts on this novel or you can click here for it also.
Hmm, I don’t see Olivia Jean with her head in the clouds, either. In fact, I admired how diligent she was about her schoolwork, and how much she liked reading (remembering the scene where she sat in the chair and read to her unborn child).
I’m have a note in my “handy-dandy notebook” that says “p. 51, birthday prayer before bed — God, help Mama and Daddy be nice to me”
and a few pages later (p. 54) a note about “reading to the baby in utero … “at night …teaching colored-folk knowledge”.
So, I think she was realistic, not living in a fantasy world; she just wanted things to be different than the way they were.
I am really glad that Turk doesn’t have a voice. The more I read, the less I like him. I disliked him by his actions. He was thoughtless to his wife and child. I haven’t seen him be a father to Olivia Jean yet. To me, a father’s role is as equally important as a mother’s. She’s been there, he hasn’t. If he had a voice in the book, it would have been a major turn off. That’s just me though.
Also, I don’t see Olivia Jean as living in the clouds. I don’t see a kid can make things worse. They are, after all, kids – a product of their environment. See a problem with a child, look to the parents. That’s usually where the answers are found.
I still don’t have any ill feelings towards Daisy. No, she wasn’t the best of mothers, but I feel sympathy for her.
This noon-time chat thing is a really neat idea, Dar. It’s interesting to read the different voices and the conversation that goes on. Hmmm – giving me some ideas for MY blog (smile)
J.Kaye – as soon as I started reading “Daisy’s section” I felt empathy for her (compared to the major irritation I felt toward her in Olivia Jean’s section).
She tries to protect Olivia Jean, doesn’t want Turk to know about the pregnancy (I imagine she knows how he’ll react).
on p 93 Daisy thinks “she was trapped between an angry husband and a needy child”
It’s Bonnie’s writing that created these characters that arouse such strong emotions in us — good strong writing!
Oh gosh, Dawn, you are so right. It’s the writing. I can’t believe how fired up I get over some of these things we’ve been discussing…lol! Dar was dead on with this being a super book club read.
Ha! You know I’d love to hear how some men think about the book. I’ve had a host of women complain about Turk. I don’t know. Maybe he has some redeeming characteristics that we haven’t seen yet — that maybe we won’t in this book? And no, I don’t think there will be a sequel.
What if Turk could no more help himself than an addict? Would that make any difference in your thoughts?
Hi Dar, this is off topic. Just want to let you know I’ll be mailing The Other Queen to you tomorrow. My daughter brought it back today and said she just didn’t have time to read it and to send it on (can you imagine – “didn’t have time to READ”, lol). I’m going to check the UPS store first to see if their rate compares to the US postal rates. I’ll let you know.
For me, I am guessing no. The reason is Bill Clinton. He obviously had a problem and empathy wasn’t a feeling I had for him.
Dawn, I had forgotten that scene. I loved how Olivia Jean read to her baby even before it’s birth.
J.Kaye, I agree. While I’m not too fond of Daisy yet, she is there and she does take care of Olivia Jean. My feelings towards her are slowly changing though-we’ll see. As Dawn said also, in the second section you see a bit of who Daisy may really be.
Marvin, it’s a great idea. It’s great for getting different ideas and opinions out there on a book.
Bonnie, I’m with J.Kaye on Turk. I just couldn’t like him simply because of the way he’s treated Olivia Jean. For me calling her ‘that girl’ just made me, excuse the phrase again, slap him upside the head.
Dar – beating my characters up? For shame. Wait a minute. Didn’t I do it too. The opening scene where Daisy has the broom.
So, no sympathy, no empathy from most of the women about poor Turk. You know, I did not mean for him to be so unsympathetic. I believe that most characters as in people are either good with bad streaks or bad with good streaks.
But seems as if Turk is un-redeemable. But, let’s get back to Daisy. What do you say of a woman who is with a man like Turk and won’t leave? Was it the times? Or should e take a large part of the blame for staying when perhaps she could have left?
Bonnie
Bonnie, lol. I think we’ve all had a turn at poor old Turk already. I do have a redeeming quality for Turk-he fathered Olivia Jean and not withstanding the upbringing she’s had she seems to be a pretty awesome girl.
As for Daisy, I think it was maybe part of the way things were then. Most thought she was lucky to have a man like Turk. I want to say too that I think we may find out more about her relationship with Turk further on because I’m gathering he may have been her first boyfriend. She loves him and I think she’s blinded by it. I would like to say she should have booted him out because it’s what I think but at the same time nobody really knows a situation unless they’re living it right. Most of us make mistakes we wish we could do over and I really think Daisy is such a character.
I have to say Bonnie that your writing and this story is just great. The story strikes an emotional chord I think and for me I always love that in a book.
All right — I hope you’ll still love me by Friday. Is that when everyone is supposed to have finished up?
Bonnie
Oh oh Bonnie, that sounds kind of ominous-lol. Yes, our wrap up is Friday and I don’t know about the other girls but I’ll do a full review on the weekend of the novel too.
‘See a problem with a child, look to the parents. That’s usually where the answers are found.’
So true…both Turk and Daisy were too dysfunctional to be parents…and Turk’s response/actions when Oliva Jean got pregnant were so wrong. I can understand him being disappointed…what parent wouldn’t be. But, what happened to UNCONDITIONAL love, getting over, and moving forward. However, since I’ve read the entire book, toward the end it was revealed to me why he acted the way he did.
Turk…unfortunately he was NOT painted in a favorable light and as far as I could tell he had no redeeming qualities. I’m glad not much time was spent on him because he wasn’t a character that I really cared abour nor did I want to be inundated with his shenanigans…I know that when he dropped off Olivia Jean and Daisy down south that out of sight was going to be out of mind. Oh but I loved that Daisy’s mom made her stay…brilliant move!
What do you say of a woman who is with a man like Turk and won’t leave? I call her a dumb arze…sorry I have no sympathy or empathy for women who place men before their kids. Those type of women should not have children.
Was it the times? some of it was but we still have silly women like this today…and I just want to slap them upside their darn head…for being so stupid…lol.
Or should e take a large part of the blame for staying when perhaps she could have left? Oh yeah she definitely was part of the problem.
Yep wrap up is Friday and I’m up…might have a slight problem with the time and can’t make it…but I’ll still make sure I have something posted.
Bonnie, as you are aware, Going Down South was the September BOM for APOOO. What you might not be aware is that we had much to say about these characters and most of us really enjoyed the book. It does make a good book club read…but regarding Turk…hmmm I don’t think we need to hear any more about him…in other words no sequel warranted…lol. 😉
Yasmin – first, let me thank APOOO for all that all of you did to bring this book out of the closet (so to speak)! I was aware that you all made this a book of the month — but I wasn’t aware that I could participate too — which I would have done because I always have a lot to say! You really don’t know how much I appreciated the attention.
That being said — how are you gonna hate on Turk so much? What about being a product of his environment? Wat about “seeing where he lives” before judging him? Do you think he’s gotten a fair shake?
Bonnie
LOL…Bonnie you ask why am I hating on Turk so much…because I know that everyone who comes from bad environment or dysfunctional family doesn’t have to be a by-product of their situation. But, another thing I noticed, and I don’t think you intended it this way…but none of the black men in this book were worth writing home about…all of them were characters that I would not want to give the time of day. Shorty Long came out smelling like a rose compared to Turk and the good, Reverend Pastor…lol. Seriously, I’ve known good men and I’ve known bad men…and all of them haven’t been black.
As far as where Turk lives…it always appeared to be somewhere other than home. Sorry in my book that’s a no good man and not one that I have a lot of remorse, respect or sympathy for.
Thank God he was only a character in a book.
Oh yeah…the next time you write a book…I will have to get you over to APOOO to discuss it with us…in the meantime, I’m going to see if I can get some of the members to come out on Friday and discuss it at the Noontime Chat which will be held at APOOO.
Yasmin, I agree. Turk never redeemed himself for me either. As a matter of a fact he only made it worse.
I do think there was one good male character and that was Lupe. I liked him. He seemed sweet and caring.